Re: The Great Certification Debate

[LuftHans <LuftHans@asu.edu>]

On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Scott Williams wrote:

> I'm considering taking Sun's exams for Certified System Administrator and 
> Certified Network Administrator. So, on a whim, I went down to another support 
> group in our company that supports UNIX servers and apps. I asked one of the 
> senior managers what he thought of Sun certification, and certification in 
> general. He told me, rather bluntly, that it means absolutely nothing to him. 
> Out of 15 or so UNIX admins, only one is certified. He's ranked among the 
> bottom three of the group. The top admins have the same experience level, and 
> even had a couple of classes. He was of the impression that just about anybody 
> with "book smarts" could study and pass a test, but you have to be able to 
> apply that knowledge in the real world. The certified guy could not, and the 
> un-certified people could. Now I'm not saying that all certified people are 
> this way!! But in this instance it is so. I do remember, years ago, I was 
> working as a PC network admin, and there was this guy who worked in another 
> department. He desperatly wanted to "break" into the computer field. He was an 
> average user with no special skill to stand out. He studied and studied the 
> Novell manuals and became a CNA with absolutely no experience at all. He 
> wanted to come work with us, but none of the bosses wanted to hire him.
> 
> So, I guess it seems that anybody (almost) could buy those study books and 
> memorize information to pass a test and become certified. Therin lies a 

This is my impression with most of the computer related certs. Any idiot can
pass most of them, then groups end up with idiots running their systems.
Several of my friends have gone the classes/cert route and as soon as tehy get
exposed to anyone who knows how things really work they realize they've only
learned propaganda. There might be exceptions. The cisco cert has gotten
praise here. The only person I know who's ever talked about taking a cisco
class walked cold into their advanced class having never worked on routers
before and the instructors had to get help answering his questions. He has the
analytical and troubleshooting skills, which is the important part. I know
certified, experienced router admins who have learned from him and many more
who would do well to do so. That's a single instance. Doesn't cover
everything. He has 20-30 years experience, most of which was coding operating
systems. I don't imagine lack of certification would ever be a problem for
him.

> problem. I might have studied and passed tests, but can I really do the job? I 
> studied and passed accounting in college, but years later I can barely balance 
> my checkbook! I can't remember that stuff because I'm not an accountant, and I 
> don't use it everyday to keep it fresh and to build on it.
> 
> I guess what I'm trying to say is that any certification program that SAGE 
> should endorse should have some sort of internship with it. Like a 
> journeyman's program. That way, upon completion, at least you have "book 
> smarts" and actual real world experience.

I agree with this, but do you know of any journeyman programs in the US? It
would be easy to setup in Germany. Companies are required provide inernship
opportunities. A friend of mine got snowed in with a non-working 386 and no
docs. He figured out how to fix it and taught himself dos and win31. Since
then he's taught himself 95 and and NT and taken classes for digital unix
sys_adm. No one will hire him because he doesn't have experience. I don't even
know of places hiring entry level with no experience. Where's he supposed to
get this internship. He uses linux at home, but doesn't have time to work,
take further classes and admin boxes for free just to get experience. This is
a somewhat extreme case of one of the many people I know trying to change
career fields. They hit the same prob as you Novell guy. How do they get
experience if they can't get an entry level job? I was able to live off
minimum wage and work for the university to get started. That's not an option
for him.

> This very thing has happened to me. I was trained by the US Army to be a 
> helicopter mechanic. I spent months in school learning airframe, powerplant, 
> and avionics. When I went to my fist duty station, a pilot came up to me 
> outside the hanger and said "she's got a pretty bad 1 to 1 and my feet tingle 
> in a left hand turn. See if you can get it fixed by lunch." Needless to say, I 
> found the nearest seargent and got help. All that training and "book smarts" 

I ignored the pilots and changed out what the Crew Chiefs told me had to be
fixed :).

> did jack squat for me. It took years to develop troubleshooting skills. It 
> hasn't taken nearly as long for me in this field, because basic 
> troubleshooting is a frame of mind. I guess that's the "real world" 
> application that senior manager was talking about.

The entry level positions need to be based on whether or not the applicant is
technically oriented and can pick up the necessary skills through ojt. Having
education should be a major plus, maybe even required, but you can't require
experience for the bottom tier. Not every company needs to have bottom tier,
but someone has to. Would you have liked the army to tell you you weren't
allowed to work on the birds just because you didn't have any experience?

Beyond the entry level position many of the cert concerns might be more valid,
though I still think today's certs are for people who can't do it and need a
piece of paper to try to prove their worth. I'd prefer SAGE be more concerned
with attracting competent people to sys_adm and with providing informational
resources for sys_adm, which is why I'm a member :).

> How can you test for that? How can you certify that? How do other managers out 
> there feel about certification? Would it really make a difference to you? Or, 
> is it just a "flag" on your resume to get you through HR?

I don't feel a cert would bring me much in the US. If I were to go back to
Germany it might prove useful. I think this is something else SAGE should keep
in mind. Different countries have different cultural and legal requirements.

ciao,

der.hans

> Scott Williams
> Sr. Systems Admin.
> JCPenney
> 
> 

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